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Diversity in the Manchester tech and start-up scene, with Tom Staff

Diversity in the Manchester tech and start-up scene, with Tom Staff

A couple of weeks ago, our D&I Manager, Tzeitel Degiovanni, had the pleasure of interviewing Tom Staff - Co-Founder of Manchester-based PropTech company Street Group. Back for a second installment, Tom speaks about diversity more generally in the Manchester tech and startup scene, giving us some knowledge about how he feels as a leader and the growing emphasis on corporate social justice and responsibility.

I know you've worked in the tech space in Manchester for several years, predominantly in your own companies and startups. Are there some glaring issues or trends you've noticed regarding representation in the tech or startup space or lack thereof? 

I have to caveat my answer by saying that my experience outside running my own business is limited. Heather has a much better understanding on that front. I'm a gay man myself, and Heather is a woman working within corporate – so a slightly unusual two people to be heading up and running a company, which leads into why we've got such focus on D&I. Heather used to be a senior director at KPMG restructuring in London, so she's got the kind of considerable company experience, and as a consultant, she would be in and out of lots of different companies seeing how those dynamics play out. Mine is relatively limited because I've always run my own business. I would say that it is a pretty diverse environment within the tech scene, especially in Manchester. However, one glaring problem is the representation of women in engineering positions. And it's shared with every startup founder I speak to, whether at networking events or anything like that. Anybody with half an eye on diversity and inclusion is battling this problem.

It's a very, very difficult one to try and address as a business because you're at the end of a long string of knock-on effects. You've got control over that little bit at the end, but everyone I speak to in the Manchester tech scene acknowledges it's a problem. There's now being done, and much more momentum is being put into making changes. So one thing we're getting involved with is tech returners, which is helping women, in particular, who have taken a career break, usually due to having children, get back into the tech scene. And I was shocked at how difficult most of them find it. We spoke to one of the founders of Tech Returners, and he explained why this is so important.  I'm so used to developers always being in such high demand, and you know, if a good developer came along, you would bite their hand off. So, the idea that people were rejecting developers because they had a couple of years out for babies was foreign to me and shocking. So we're currently sponsoring a cohort through tech returners, and that's just about to be finished now. Everybody within the team who's been involved with it has loved it, and many of them have been doing stuff outside of office hours, so they've enjoyed the process.

Yeah, definitely. When I've spoken to people who work in the London tech space, especially in big corporations and professional services companies, they've said that although there is racial/ethnic diversity, there isn't much mobility once they get there. So, for example, if they are in engineering and want to move over to sales or move up to a managerial role, they find that process difficult. And they're often kept within these rigid roles that are strictly tech. Have you noticed any of that, and do you think maybe that's different in Manchester? What are your thoughts on mobility?

I haven't seen that kind of issue in the Manchester tech scene. But again, that goes with the massive caveat that my experience outside my companies is relatively limited. Our company has outstanding ethnic and gender diversity in leadership positions. But I know my thoughts are massively skewed by my experience at my own company and potentially not an accurate representation of the Manchester tech scene. I have also been on many diversity and inclusion webinars where these issues are very striking. 

It's great that you, as the co-founder, are actively attending these conferences and taking this work seriously, not just delegating it to a specific team. Tell me more about the panels you attended and what you've learned.

Yeah, they are instrumental. It also makes you think about things you wouldn't have before. A great one I took from the last one I was on was asking somebody before they attend an interview whether there are any adaptations to the process they require. Because, you know, before they arrive at your premises, you might not know that they're in a wheelchair, for example. And even if your company is set up with wheelchair access, if it takes you by surprise on the day and people are flustered, it can create a horrible experience for the candidate.

And then there are also non-visible disabilities. So, part of the interview process is doing a task. If you're on the engineering side, it's usually a tech task; if you're on the commercial side, it's usually some verbal reasoning test. But they'll almost always involve reading. I'm dyslexic, but I have never considered asking somebody, "Do you need extra time to read?". It's been a massive learning experience for me, and that's something we've added to our process now. So even if we are already set up to accommodate something, we know about it beforehand so interviewers are comfortable and create an unpleasant or awkward first impression. So, little things like that have nothing to do but massively improve the candidate experience.

That's fantastic. And it also takes that onus off them to say or ask about requirements or changes. Taking away that worry that it will disadvantage them in any way is so important. Going out and asking them, "Is there anything you need? Anything you'd like us to be aware of?". Because then you've asked, and then they feel supported and not like they have to carry that responsibility to get through the door, literally.

Yeah, I mean, the example they gave in the talk was that they had a candidate in a wheelchair, and they had the wheelchair ramp. However, they didn't ask the candidates before they arrived whether they would need special assistance or anything for the interview process. When the candidate arrived, the wheelchair ramp was on the other side of the building, about a 15-minute round trip. Somebody had to go and usher them to where the interview was being held. The first candidate's first experience is ringing the buzzer, somebody arriving, and then being there for 15 minutes. So he said, even though they were technically set up to be wheelchair accessible, they hadn't asked the question and weren't practically equipped, and so they lost that candidate, who was brilliant.

Absolutely. That culture of accessibility has to run quite deep and be integrated into every part of the process. My last question for you is zooming out on past year's events. What are your thoughts, I guess personally but also as the leader of an organisation, on the social issues that have erupted, especially during the pandemic? Do you have any thoughts on corporate responsibility and corporate social justice as they come to be known? 

Yeah, that's an excellent question. First, being in tech is naturally a very liberal kind of space. Sometimes, it is easy to forget that you are in this liberal tech bubble and that this little bubble you live in is not representative of broader society. We all, giant corporations, really do have a responsibility. And I think the time of "stay quiet, don't get involved as a business" is over. Consumers and clients want to see us take a stance, and they want to see that our beliefs represent their beliefs. People now see silence on these issues as more damaging than coming up with an opinion that may not be the same as others. So firstly, corporations and companies are responsible for these kinds of issues. I talk about this often. We both agree that as the leader of an organisation, you are in a position of power, you are in a position of responsibility, and you have the responsibility of shaping the environment in which quite a few people spend most of their lives. So we take the responsibility of making sure that that space is an excellent place to be, no matter who you are or where you come from, really seriously.