How inclusive is your 'D&I': Trans rights and representation in the workplace

Trans Inclusion, Visibility and Understanding in the Workplace

Following their first interview, our Diversity and Inclusion Manager, Tzeitel Degiovanni, speaks to Tate Smith - Junior Legal Support Secretary at Clifford Chance and Lead on Arcus - the firm's LGBT+ network - Education and Awareness Pillar. As the firm's first openly trans person, Tate helped to re-draft the 2019 Trans Policy and has hosted two Lunch & Learn sessions on what it's like to be both gay and transgender. He has been featured in Global Butterflies, Legal Week, Mygwork, and DiverseJobsMatter interviews. In this piece, Tzeitel and Tate speak specifically about the newly-energized focus on Diversity and Inclusion efforts and where they are missing the mark on trans issues.

In most spaces, but especially in corporate workplaces, we don't see enough trans men or women. Not in the media, marketing, boardroom, or decision-making, so we don't see or hear about their experiences. What are your thoughts on this?

I don't think there's enough visibility for trans people across the board completely, especially within professional workplaces. Panels have become the only thing where I see trans people, but where I do see these trans panels or anything similar, I see a lot more trans women and little to no trans men. And it's not great to see because I think it's a reflection of what the general public thinks of as trans, because when we think of transgender, we stereotypically think of a 6-foot bony-looking man playing dress-up, wearing women's clothing… we don't think that being a trans man is a thing, we think that they're just lesbians or tomboys. So there's not enough visibility at all, and where there is, it's kind of up-and-coming. So I really think that workplaces and the media can do a much bigger and better job of making sure they've got trans role models and they're telling people's stories and telling them in the right way as well. It mustn't be just coming from a cis-male voice; it needs to be a very unbiased, open conversation and very educational, which de-bunks common myths.

There's a lot of dialogue around the medical/hormone aspect of the transition, and a lot of people are speaking from grossly misinformed positions, including some HR departments. I know you had an incredibly difficult experience in a previous place of work regarding this…

Yeah, I mean, the place I was at before was awful. I remember being in a meeting with the HR representative after I had come out of work and said that I would be transitioning, and she told me that if I wanted to move to another room to be away from other people, I could. And I remember thinking, "What on earth?" I just couldn't believe what they were saying or suggesting was real. Because it wasn't for my benefit, it was because they "didn't know" what would happen once I started taking testosterone. It's interesting how everyone said they were so behind me, but they were so behind me because I was a token for them. Because it was interesting because they now know a trans person. It was exotic for them, a 'nice change to the group,' which was disappointing.

Based on that experience, what are your opinions now on applying to companies? Perhaps you are unsure what their culture protocol or policies will be like. In terms of the recruitment process, how do you think recruiters and companies can ensure candidates are making informed choices and are kept safe?

Yeah, so I am personally not working anywhere that hasn't got a trans policy. That is just my number one thing, and it is a total deal-breaker. I wouldn't be going into an interview or a company's workplace unless I know I can be kept safe. And that's a very unfortunate thing for me to have to say as a trans person because I have to think firstly about my safety. So, while everyone else is thinking, 'Is this job right for me?' and 'Is it going to pay me what I want?', I'm thinking, 'Am I going to be protected from harassment and bullying?'. So that's a really big thing.

However, I am also attracted to workplaces that have won awards for diversity and inclusion and have demonstrated their D&I work, and it's not just a little paragraph on their website. It's about actionable things, like seeing that you've done pro bono volunteering work, that you're helping the trans community, you're helping the wider LGBT+ community – you're going out there and actively helping. You're showing that those people are also within your firm.

So policy, awards, demonstrable work, and videos from senior leaders. It is so powerful when a CEO does a video for LGBT History Month or puts out a statement about what is happening in the government on trans rights. Something like that. If you don't demonstrate an inclusive culture, and I don't hear it firsthand from your employees through word of mouth or webinars, videos, or panels, then I don't want to work for you. That's my attitude.

Absolutely. It’s the actionable things that companies need to be doing. Not just lip-service in social media posts

I know when a company is talking the talk and not walking the walk. We can all say, "Yeah, we're respective of trans people," or "Yeah, we don't have a problem with gay people," or "Black Lives Matter," post a black square for a day, and then delete it a couple of months after. But actually, demonstrating your commitment to the community and employees are completely different things. So, having networks, for example, is essential. If you haven't got a trans policy, an LGBT+ network af, finite networks for women and ethnic minorities, or a diversity network – I don't want to work for you. Because that just shows to me that you don't care. How can we connect with other people like us without those groups? Companies can say x amount of people work in their firm who are trans or LGBT – but then they haven't got networks to bring all those people together for mutual support and also to create education and awareness.

I love Clifford Chance so much; they get it so right. They've got the networks, the diverse data, and the massive catalog of pro-bono work, which is amazing. Then we have statements from senior people, we have inclusion reports, we're the first major city law firm that established Partner LGBT+ targets, and they consulted the LGBT+ Network on this specifically. They also have a D&I Committee, which a cisgender man heads up, so we've got such a strong sense of allyship here; it's incredible. I think people could take a lot of notes from Clifford Chance. Whenever I speak at undergraduate law events and meet people from other firms, I ask them about their LGBT work, and it's just not the same.

Many people underestimate how much an integrated culture of diversity and inclusion affects people's real, everyday lives.

Clifford Chance is the reason I'm living life as my authentic self. When I joined, I wasn't even out, and I didn't even want to come out; I just wanted people to accept me. But it was when I got involved with the LGBT+ network that I realized that I am actually in a really powerful position here within this fantastic law firm to be the first openly trans person. I thought about how many people I could inspire, and it just started like that. Now I'm doing all these panels and interviews for organisations like Legal Week and it's incredible.

It's incredible what happens when a company creates an environment where you feel comfortable being yourself and where that self is celebrated. What is your advice for companies now reflecting internally and realizing they're not doing that and want to create a trans policy?

Consult real trans people. I don't think you can write up anything about trans people if you are cisgender. If you haven't consulted with trans people, then the policy is just for show. I know Global Butterflies are the first people that some companies speak to, but also you need to speak to trans people within your organisation. Then people at Global Butterflies can help with formally putting a policy together. It's not that difficult. Once you speak to trans people, you realise that we just want to be heard, visible and protected. And we don't want to be your token person to discuss gender in the coffee area. We want to be protected from discrimination, harassment, and bullying and be able to dress however we choose. There's so much to think about, but really, what it all comes down to is:

1. Support from managers about transitioning and recognizing that not every trans person transitions
2. Respecting people's pronouns, especially in interviews, and including these in email signatures to promote inclusion
3. Inclusive dress codes
4. Strict anti-bullying and anti-discrimination policy
5. Gender-neutral bathrooms.

I think the gender-neutrality of bathrooms is such a sticking point for so many, which makes the response (or lack of) from employers in regard to this that much more important.

Unfortunately, it is a fact of life for lots of trans women that when they enter a single-sex space, they are thought of as predators. For trans men like me, going into the bathroom is a bit daunting, yes, but men don't talk to each other in there. They go in, they do their business, they get out. For women, it sometimes becomes a more social experience. And it only takes one ignorant person who doesn't know much about trans people to say, "Oh my god, there's a man in here," and cause a complaint. At that moment, they are reducing someone to their genitals and stopping them from entering a 'single-sex' space just because of what they think is between their legs rather than what they identify as. Now, what is important when that happens is how an organisation will react to that, but also how they will promote education and awareness so that doesn't keep happening. So diversity, LGBT+ training, normalising pronouns and just making sure that transphobia is not tolerated is paramount. One of the key starting points is familiarizing yourself with what transphobia is and looks like and then educating the wider company. It sounds like a lot, but it does come down to the simple things, and you'll understand that when you've consulted with trans people.

Absolutely. I think a lot of people have the attitude that because it doesn't affect them, and they think only a small minority of the population is trans, it's not a big deal and not worth them doing something about…

Definitely. Which is why the new UK 2021 census  is so great. So even though we won't know exactly how many people identify as trans or non-binary because some people still won't be open on their form, we're going to get a much better idea of how many trans people there are living in this country. We know they are currently 1% of the population, which is already a lot of people. So when you think of the context of workplaces, that's a handful or so of people who are working around you that identify as trans or non-binary or non-gendered. I don't think people realise how many trans people there are. Even though I know a handful of people at Clifford Chance, I watched a webinar for another law firm, and there were four people. But we just don't realise how 'normal' or common this is.

Do you think that Trans and LGBT+ issues have fallen through the cracks of recent Diversity and Inclusion initiatives?

It's falling through the cracks. The stuff that I'm speaking about is brilliant, but that's because I'm speaking about it, and there is a trans voice present. But for the most part, a lot of LGBT+ panels, events, articles, the whole lot – are predominantly white, cis, able-bodied gay men. I don't see enough people of colour or any ethnic minorities in these spaces at all. And they do exist – so why aren't they being represented? It frustrates me that this is the picture we are seeing of LGBT+ when it's so much more rich and colorful than that. To a straight cisperson who is logging onto a webinar and maybe wanting to learn more and take an interest, they're being given an extremely narrow representation of what it means to be LGBT+. You can't have a panel made up of white people that is not representative of the community. Also, the two biggest issues within our communities are biphobia and transphobia, so if you don't have an LGBT+ panel representing those people, you're missing the 'B' and the 'T.'

You're right. It's also important to acknowledge that it is a lot harder to come out as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, or Transgender as a person of color living in the UK. The cultural experience is not the same, especially when they're also facing racial/ethnic discrimination.

Exactly – and it will become a vicious cycle because they won't want to come out or feel inspired to come out as they're not seeing people like them. They're not being represented, so 'Diversity and Inclusion' needs to look at itself to see whether it is diverse and inclusive.

What do you think companies can and should be doing to represent and platform transness in ways that aren't tokenistic? From my experience of reading about trans experiences or seeing trans visibility in the media, I find that the narrative is often bleak and portrays violence rather than celebrating the positives and the nuance.

It's difficult because everything could be perceived as tokenistic, especially from the outside. I think it's all in the action; action speaks louder than words and louder than small paragraphs on a website. I think it's all about hearing from real-life trans people, their positive experiences at a firm, and talking about the positive aspects of their transition as well as the negative ones. Changing the narrative and making sure the narrative isn't all sad, depressive, and angry. I mean, many aspects of our transition are incredibly hard, and it is incredibly hard being trans – I used to wake up every day and wish I had been born a boy. But I've sort of pushed that back into my head now because I have plenty of great things to be getting on with, and I have a lot of positive aspects of my transition, and this is one of them.

Speaking on panels and getting my top surgery is really big stuff like that. It all comes down to capturing the right, positive things, being a genuine ally, and being open and honest about what more companies can do. Let's not beat around the bush; we've all got a lot to do to further trans rights, and it's going to be a collective effort; it's not just on one community or one workplace or just on the government; it's on society as a whole. It wasn't just workplaces or the government that led and changed gay rights; it was the people. Unfortunately, the picture in the UK looks bleak because it feels like every week, it's something new with trans rights being rolled back, so we've got a lot to do.

How was your experience with Owen Reed and being placed at Clifford Chance by Anna and her team?

Anna and Lauren have been superb when I have contacted them, especially this year. They've been very respectful of me, and Anna has been so great. Their involvement demonstrates how much they care about diversity and inclusion. And it was never even a question of 'Oh, but you're a legal secretary and a guy?' or 'Oh, that's a bit weird' – none of that. Nothing has ever been said about my transness apart from when I brought it up on my terms. It's been a positive experience.